Cat

Willbender

Hi, I've only reverted your changes for the time being because drastic changes to popular pages shouldn't be made before discussing them first, and it was easier to roll back in bulk. I'll provide reasoning for the current version as you've asked but I'd like to hear yours too before you make more.

The consumables sound good, we can add them.

How is Contemplation of Purity "a meme"? It's a 32s CD mass cleanse/boon source/stunbreak. Replacing it with a 40s CD stunbreak that mostly grants boons you already have doesn't sound that great to me, especially now that the F3 stunbreak got a CD increase. The only other stunbreak in the build is JI, which is often used offensively. The lower CD option should be the go-to, IMO. If you don't like CoP, "Stand Your Ground!" with its 24s CD and stability access should still be far better than SY.

The issue with CoP, like other sustain options, is that WB already struggles the longer a fight goes on. The nerfs to f3, spear 5, and sword 5 cooldowns have all had (maybe unexpectedly) large effects to the build's performance as a whole, and it's now in the WB's interest to avoid taking fights with condi guys in the first place if they can help it. The boons from SYS help to fill the gaps in uptime, offer an offensive option of pressing it in your opener for synergy with Inspired Virtue, and give you access to a not-insignificant amount of Vigor. The extra Resistance uptime is also great in the face of soft CC spam.

CoP tries to patch one of WB's weaker points, but it's usually not enough to matter against the tanky nonsense condi builds you run into in WvW. The longer a fight goes on, the worse the WB's odds are. -Cat (talk) 20:07, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

I know Guardian in general prefers shorter fights, but I still think Willbender has better options than to be relegated to a niche burst spec that aims for 5 second fights or else it's gg. This is exactly why SY is a meme option, it's only used in one trick builds for Inspired Virtue synergy. If you're pressing your 40s stunbreak in your opener, it's a meme build. We can have it as a variant but not on the main bar. I also aim to make builds more universal than having to tell people "you need to just bail if it's a condi spec", especially when it can be built to have some chance against them. --Hanz (talk) 08:18, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

On swap bursts are nice but do we really need double Hydro? I feel like a defensive set is worth more, esppecially after the sustain nerfs. We could discuss moving sigils around though, or making it a variant.

Same reasoning as above, you don't want fights to drag on long enough that you have to rely on the nonexistent sustain of Willbender. Giving the spear opener that extra burst spike (in conjunction with rage or celerity) helps to give back some of the killing power after the various coefficient nerfs the build has received since JW. -Cat (talk) 20:07, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

Leadership rune feels like a waste on a power build when Fireworks exists.

If you're trying to min-max stats, it Leadership beats Fireworks as long as it has 5 stats you care about. Power/Precision/Ferocity/Toughness/Vitality are enough on their own, and then the Concentration pushes it a little further with how much WB likes to give itself boons. I wouldn't default the build to it, but it's a good choice if you take the time to optimize your build around it. -Cat (talk) 20:07, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

You're kinda arguing against yourself. You want us to go all in on burst damage but then suggest a rune with lower burst/higher sustain and swap the relic to something that has less damage but better disengage. WB has enough mobility to stick to targets as is, so I'd view Speed as a defensive pick. Disengaging can prolong fights too, so at that point we really could be building for a bit more sustain and use the mobility to patch the gaps in it, which is a playstyle that suits Willbender and still works. --Hanz (talk) 08:18, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Relic of the Stormsinger only got nerfed once, not "multiple times". The nerf was harsh but the real difference is that in the past Stormsinger was the only option, now it's just one of many (but still viable). You can still frequently get ~1k AoE crits on it, that still makes it one of the best sigils for damage on spear. --Hanz (talk) 13:44, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

While there was only one nerf in the patch notes (the 40% coefficient reduction), they also (silently) patched some bugs with it months prior that Willbender abused pretty hard. F1 and spear 2 used to bypass the ICD and could both proc the relic while ooc, and while not many people used the ooc proc, losing the ICD bypass hurt the damage output by quite a bit. If you don't believe me, just look at your numbers in arc after a fight and ask yourself if you would've been better off running a different damage relic or Speed instead. -Cat (talk) 20:07, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

Stormsinger was still the meta pick in sPvP until Helio Rush lost its second charge there, I don't see why it should be different in WvW. There are other options you can run but it's still not terrible. Fixing the bug on Fireworks and nerfing the Virtue CDs to be in Fireworks range might have made it better though, I'll test that later. But procs are generally preferred to raw number increases. --Hanz (talk) 08:18, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

And please stop giving a 1 star rating to Willbender. You know it's not true. Be honest with yourself, it's not on the level of a condi thief running Berserker amulet with no offhand weapon and no stunbreak. That's a 1 star build. WB is still one of the most played specs in ranked. --Hanz (talk) 08:18, 16 May 2025 (UTC)